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Teak Bowsprit

 
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Domenic



Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 6
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:41 am    Post subject: Teak Bowsprit Reply with quote

Does anyone have a comment on a teak laminated bowsprit. As far as I
know, teak would be good because I think teak won't rot. Should I keep
it oiled instead of varnish?
Thanks,
Dominic
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hjkarten
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 642
Location: Del Mar, California, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dominic,
I have an all teak laminated bowsprit made of three planks of solid teak. The problem is that epoxy doesn't always reliably bond teak to teak because of the high oil content. I believe that there is a new formulation of epoxy that is specific for teak.

The drawback of a solid teak laminate is only that it is heavy. But it is lovely, and people greatly admire it. It has forced me to learn how to back my boat out of my slip with much greater caution. I hate the prospect of scarring that gorgeous piece of wood by scraping it against a concrete piling.

I coated it with Epifanes Rapidcoat and Rapidclear. Not sure how many coats I have by this time, but probably more than 6 or 8 coats.
regards,
Harvey
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Harvey J. Karten
Tayana 37
Hull #84
Del Mar, CA 92014
EMail: hjkarten@ucsd.edu
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Rich Hampel



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 391
Location: Chalfont Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teak is NOT a good wood for structural members. Teak when loaded is subject to giving up 'large' chunks and splits due to its 'waviness' of grain. Have you priced straight grain teak lately?

Solid teak would be the 'worst' in vulnerability to 'chunks and splits'.

Suggest you consider yellow pine or other rot resistant 'structural' species ..... alternating with teak strakes (teak on the 'outside'). Most wooden boat builders consider teak NOT to be a 'structural' species.
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RichH
Ty37 #423 "Aquila"
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hjkarten
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 642
Location: Del Mar, California, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rich,
Quite right. However, since the bowsprit is mainly in compression, as long as there is no rigging failure, solid teak bowsprit should be OK. I guess that if there was a rigging failure (chainplates or wire) then the bowsprit "might" be able to carry the load for a few more seconds before failing. (But I would worry about how your hull reacts when you "Test Load to 60%"?)
regards,
Harvey
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Harvey J. Karten
Tayana 37
Hull #84
Del Mar, CA 92014
EMail: hjkarten@ucsd.edu
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Rich Hampel



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 391
Location: Chalfont Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compression .... IF and only IF the bobstay is correctly set up. Plus you get dynamic loads due to waves and gusts ... so there is ALWAYS some flexure transmitted to the sprit.

If you dont have that bobstay tension set to perfection, those laminations are going to separate ... especially at the teak surfaces since teak and epoxy really dont 'like' one another. (TaYang used polyester to laminate my OEM sprit).
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RichH
Ty37 #423 "Aquila"
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hjkarten
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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 642
Location: Del Mar, California, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rich,
I obviously took your words of caution quite seriously, so when I installed the teak bowsprit, I added several 1/2" bolts compressing the planks together. I have now seen a small seam opening between the planks, and will probably have to deal with it in the future. So far, there is only one small area. I check it frequently.
regards,
Harvey
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Harvey J. Karten
Tayana 37
Hull #84
Del Mar, CA 92014
EMail: hjkarten@ucsd.edu
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Rich Hampel



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 391
Location: Chalfont Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that Ive had my LAST wooden bowsprit. If my boat ever needs to have that bowsprit replaced .... Im definitely going with an equivalent to what Bob Perry put on his new Pacific Seacraft 38.5 design.... a horseshoe made from tubular stainless steel tubing: no foredeck clutter, predictable, easily fabricated, much lighter weight, etc. etc.

Although Pacifc Seacraft (PSC, Dana, Flicka, Saga) went Chapter 13 and all the assest were 'dissolved', he still retains the rights to this design ... so it probably wont be long until it resurfaces under another builders name . The PS38.5 is essentially a truely 'modernized' Ty37... and the drawings show something absolutely WONDERFUL.

... Hello TaYang, are you listening to this.
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RichH
Ty37 #423 "Aquila"
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hjkarten
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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 642
Location: Del Mar, California, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rich,
Ah, if only I could afford a new boat by Perry....
I met him at the Port Ludlow rendezvous and was most impressed by him both intellectually and as a decent person.
Where can I see the design of his new 38.5?
I increasingly love our Tayana 37, but as we age, the wish for a stern entry and for a more accessible berth increases. Did he deal with that in his 38.5?
regards,
Harvey
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Harvey J. Karten
Tayana 37
Hull #84
Del Mar, CA 92014
EMail: hjkarten@ucsd.edu
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Rich Hampel



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 391
Location: Chalfont Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLAT stern.... I believe it has a 'drop down' stern entry so you can board via a passerelle (med moor). Not a 'canoe stern'. Bigger beam, bigger interior, split underbody, 'modern' FRG construction - lighter weight, etc. etc. etc.
Will send .jpg direct.
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RichH
Ty37 #423 "Aquila"
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poopdeckpappy



Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:28 pm    Post subject: PSC is alive Reply with quote

I understand all assets ( molds,tooling and inproduction Hulls )of PSC have been bought by a gentleman back east and well soon be back on line.

I also understand this person ( Steve Bordie ) is a good friend of Crealocks, so detail and workmanship should remain high
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Domenic



Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 6
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:55 pm    Post subject: Bowsprit Reply with quote

Perhapes a Bowsprit like on a Islander freeport? But, I do not think it is as pretty as the wood one.
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Rich Hampel



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 391
Location: Chalfont Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Domenic

to answer your original question, the current OEM bowsprit on a Ty37 is laminated of teak alternating with an 'asian' mahogany. The 'asian' mahogany is very prone to rot, the rot usually occuring very deep inside the sprit and many times with little external evidence except where the rot 'started'.

The rot enters the sprit through cracks along the lamination/glue lines ... and also through the hardware attachment points if not carefully maintained/caulked. Thin walled stainless tubing cut to length and epoxied in-place to line the insidee diameter of the bore holes of the attachment hardware may prevent water 'uptake' when the caulking of this hardware fails.

Oil unless 'resinated' with varnish and with many thick coats applied will probably not seal the glue lines nor the attachment hardware. Soft/flexible spar varnish or other flexible coatings are probably best.
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RichH
Ty37 #423 "Aquila"
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Chuck Snyder



Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 47
Location: St. Petersburg, FL

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Domenic,

I had my replacement bowsprit made from epoxy laminated Honduras mahogany and am quite happy with it. The mahogany is quite strong, very rot resistant, and cheaper than teak. At Rich's suggestion, I used s/s ferrules for all through hole attachment points. I had the laminates run horizontally so that all the through bolts added compression to the layers. Pics of my project here:
ftp://anonymous%40tognews.com@tognews.com/Bowsprit_T_37/Bowsprit_Old_New_ChuckSnyder

I would do a few things different now. First of all I would radius all sharp edges with a router. This makes any coating like varnish or paint less susceptible to failure at the edge. I finished mine with Honey Teak and it looks gorgeous, but I haven't kept up on maintenance coats in the Florida sun. I am considering striping the varnish in the future and having it sprayed with a 2 part poly white paint like Awl Grip. I know, I know, it's not a traditional finish, but varnishing the sprit is a real pain.

Chuck
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hjkarten
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 642
Location: Del Mar, California, USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Chuck,
For various imponderable reasons, the internet address for our ftp site now requires a modified URL. The results are much easier to access that the BlueHost Java program that we were using for the past year.
The address needed to insert links is:
ftp://anonymous%40tognews.com@tognews.com/Bowsprit_T_37/Bowsprit_Old_New_ChuckSnyder

Note the insertion of the essential:
"ftp://anonymous%40tognews.com@tognews.com/........[your desired directory]

I have corrected the URL in your last posting, and I believe it now works as you desired.
regards,
Harvey
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Harvey J. Karten
Tayana 37
Hull #84
Del Mar, CA 92014
EMail: hjkarten@ucsd.edu
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Chuck Snyder



Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 47
Location: St. Petersburg, FL

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Harvey!

Chuck
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